In which I am not pro-Snape

[notreallystars]

Well, I'm back and I'm writing about Snape because why move on with my life? I saw bad takes on tumblr years ago that I want to talk about so...here goes.

Also I've returned to DW in the midst of a hypomanic episode so apologies if this is a bit weird/incoherent.

I recently saw someone argue that the Severus Snape we see in the films is substantially different to the Snape of the books. We don't see him being as cruel in the films, we don't see his bullying in the films, and we don't see the contempt he expresses when Dumbledore suggests that he has grown to care for Harry. We don't see as clearly that every action he takes that has helped Harry is an action that he justifies to himself as being either for Lily's sake, or to repay James for saving his life. We aren't encouraged to see him as selfish and cruel in the same way that I feel we are in the books. This being the case, I wonder how many of the people who insist that Snape is a good person after all came to HP through the films rather than the books.

My least favourite take on Snape's behaviour goes something like this: "Everyone says they support traumatised people until they behave in difficult ways. Snape was traumatised by his childhood and shouldn't be judged too harshly on his behaviour." To that I would like to say: bullshit. Adults are responsible for their actions. Trauma does fuck with you in difficult ways, absolutely, but you are responsible for the things you choose to do. When the thing you choose to do is bully children over whom you have considerable power, that cannot simply be discounted because ~trauma~. It does no one any favours to perpetuate this idea that people with trauma/mental health problems should not be held to account for actions that cause harm. Mental health issues can explain behaviour, but they cannot excuse bad behaviour. God, tumblr was toxic.

The idea that Snape is somehow redeemed by his love for Lily is also really disturbing. If you act in creepy ways because you love someone, your love for them shouldn't excuse and doesn't explain the creepiness. It almost seems as if the position is that, since Snape can feel love, he can't be all bad. But I don't think the position of the people who don't see Snape as a redeemed/good person is that he's entirely bad, I think it's that he's incredibly fucking complicated. Maybe I've just been lucky in the people I've interacted with. Maybe I'm similarly misrepresenting the position of most pro-Snape people. I'm not trying to, but goodness knows these things happen.

I think Snape is a fascinating ambiguous character. I also think he can be a good character without being a good person.

Comments

[narya_flame]

I think Snape is a fascinating ambiguous character. I also think he can be a good character without being a good person.

This, 100%.

Hope you're doing OK.

[notreallystars]

Yeah I'm fine, just having some trouble getting hold of meds unfortunately and a bit stir-crazy. Hope you're OK too!

[paulamcg]

Nice to see you around again! And to read about Snape! I guessed early on that he wasn’t the villain Harry believed he was, and I’ve often thought he’s one of the characters whom Rowling used in the most fascinating ways – while I agree that doesn’t mean the way he treated a lot of children could be acceptable. He’s never been much present in my fic until recently, but some Snape fans have made me think about him more, and after he was one of the prompts at Firewhiskey Fic in January, I’ve almost accidentally ended up writing some Remus/Severus.

[notreallystars]

I agree with you, the way Rowling used him was really interesting. I think his characterisation is really strong and I enjoy thinking about him. I just get grumpy with uncomplicated pro-Snape arguments! Remus/Severus is a really interesting dynamic, I've definitely enjoyed some of it. I keep wanting to write a Severus internal narrative fic but so far haven't had good ideas for one.

[green_knight]

I read the books first, and Snape chooses to bully eleven-year-old children, which is always a choice. (Also, why is Hogwarts not protecting them better? Snape may be a good potions teacher for children he likes, but he's not a good potions teacher full stop. But I forget: the wizarding world has no concept of things like 'anger management' (or 'management' in general).)

I'm also not sure about the 'capacity for love' bit. He was infatuated with Lily, obsessed, but that's not the same. I'm not seeing him _being loving_ (or even just warm and supportive) to anyone (ok, kind of hard to meet new people if you're isolated in a tiny bubble).

Love means seeing - and accepting - the other person as a person, warts, annoying habits [*] and all. I don't see any of that in Snape.

[*] harmless things that annoy you and you put up with. Bullying the kids you teach, for instance, would NOT fall into this category, as you've pointed out. That's a point of 'either you stop NOW or I'm out'.

[notreallystars]

That's a fair point, we don't see Snape acting in genuinely loving ways. I'm prepared to believe that he experiences what he considers to be loving feelings, but as they don't ever seem to translate into loving actions the point is pretty moot.

Hogwarts definitely needs a person whose job it is to ensure that children are protected from the kind of treatment Snape inflicted on them.

[green_knight]

I've been thinking about this a bit more, and it seems to me that since the way Snape treats kids he's supposed to protect in this way, it's not very far from there to Dolores Umbridge. I mean, she's much more openly cruel, but the rest of the school looks the other way while she tortures children.

[notreallystars]

I understand where you're coming from with that. To me I think they're different in that Snape enjoys bullying students because he doesn't care about them, whereas Umbridge enjoys it because she hates them. Doesn't make a difference from the perspective of the students of course, but I find it interesting to think about.

[andrewducker]

Agreed, Snape is clearly not a good person, but he is definitely a good character. He does good things for selfish reasons, but once he's agreed to do them, he does them effectively despite huge risk. He clearly has a code of some kind, even if it's one very different to mine.

[notreallystars]

Definitely. Snape's code, however he conceives of it, is interesting for exactly that reason. That gets missed in the arguments about whether he's good or not, which is a shame.